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Author Topic: Forbidden Techniques of the Benders?  (Read 5468 times)
Isidorios
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« on: Sep 21, 2006 03:22 pm »

  Having given some thought about the Waterbender's healing ability, something seemingly unrelated to the water element completely, I postulate that it is an offshoot of forbidden bending techniques.  If you look at all of the techniques used by the various Nations, all of them are represented by the Yang Hand, being external hard techniques.  The Yin Hand represents soft, passive and internal forces, and only the waterbending healing art seems to follow that path.  The explanation could be simply that the Yin forces of Elemental bending were either harder to master, considered dishonorable or just too deadly (or a combination thereof).  To whit: A master of the Water Yin Hand could literally stop the flow of his opponents vital fluids with a touch, whereas i believe that the Water healers are enhancing that flow.  The Air Yin Hand could steal his opponents breath bringing unconciousness/death just as quickly as the Water Yin Hand.  By bending the mineral content (noteably calcium) in his foe's bones a Yin Hand Earth bender would be able to deliver light blows with shattering effect.  Finally a Yin Hand Fire Master would be able to interfere with the firedance of energies between neurons, perhaps extinguishing the flow of energies in the nervous system.  Touching upon this in AtLA is perhaps not likely given its general audience age, but would certainly be interesting.  A past incarnation of the Avatar that used or even originated these techniques would be quite a change from the line of noble defenders of the balance thus presented.  Just food for thought  Wink
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The dispensation of Nature is such that the very act of Living and Doing is to its very core, awash with Evil.
 If you cannot accept this fact, the world is impossible to live in, as it is for Poets
Karalora
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« Reply #1 on: Sep 21, 2006 03:35 pm »

Interesting thought. If this is true, then an obvious corollary is that all four elements, not just water, have the potential to heal as well.
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Kari
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« Reply #2 on: Sep 21, 2006 03:50 pm »

Wow, these are really good deep thoughts Cheesy. One thing though (or two): The energies between neurons don't have to do anything with fire. Okay, they are electrical, and at least some fire benders have the ability of bending the lightening (excuse my grammar please). However, our body has a temperature of 37,5°C (I'm sorry, no idea what this is in degree Embarrassed. But I guess You'll know). Anyhow, if a firebender would be able to cool this temperature down this would be lethal quickly. Frightening...
To the neurons: I guess the earth benders would control the neurons since the 'energies' are transported via calcium and other minerals.
These are really interesting thoughts... If there is a limit of size that the fire, water, air or piece of earth must have for that it can be bended? Because if not then this really would be possible I guess. There comes another thought to me: Can an airbender make a vacuum? If yes, then bringing quick death is possible also with the Yang hand.
Hm... I like such deep topics. Well done!

Love,
Kari
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Isidorios
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« Reply #3 on: Sep 21, 2006 04:51 pm »

  Actually I dont think the mineral content of Neurons are any more the "source" than the filament in a lightbulb. Firebending in Avatar seems to have almost nothing to do with conduction/combustion but rather the externalization of internal energies.  So while the Neurons analogy might have been a poor one, I think you can see where I was going.  As far as inflicting sudden death with the Yang Hand, its certainly reasonably simple with any of the 4 elements, the main difference being between crushing someone's skull with a mace as opposed to poisoning their wine.  Thank you for your comments  Grin
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 If you cannot accept this fact, the world is impossible to live in, as it is for Poets
Kari
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« Reply #4 on: Sep 21, 2006 05:20 pm »

Oh well, I didn't want to sound smart-alecky Roll Eyes. Sorry if I did so. Anyhow, I got Your message. And it was really an interesting thought. But somehow I guess the makers of the show didn't think that far. In the end, Avatar is still a cartoon only, sadly Sad.

Love,
Kari
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Isidorios
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« Reply #5 on: Sep 21, 2006 05:25 pm »

  I didn't take your response as smart-alecky or anything else, it was quite intelligent.  really the main obstacle in the Yin Hand techniqes is that they are pretty sinister for a youth oriented show.
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The dispensation of Nature is such that the very act of Living and Doing is to its very core, awash with Evil.
 If you cannot accept this fact, the world is impossible to live in, as it is for Poets
Kari
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« Reply #6 on: Sep 21, 2006 05:49 pm »

Quote
pretty sinister for a youth oriented show
That's very very right. The idea of something like that being possible scared even me and I watched movies as like "The ring" for example. I guess it's just so scaring because You can't do anything against it, even if You know it will happen. By the way that's one thing I like so much in Avatar: Other animes are full of violence, the creators must be thinking: the bloodier, the better. Avatar gets along great also without bloody scenes whole the time. There is much character development while in other animes there has to be action all the time.
Okay, I don't want to get off-topic.

These ideas are perhaps good for a fanfic. But not for the show. It doesn't fit into the avatar-concept IMO. Too cruel for Avatar.
(BTW: Do You think, if these techniques were existing, an avatar would use them? Of would he be too honourable? Because at least it's a very mean and not honourable attack.)

Love,
Kari
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Isidorios
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« Reply #7 on: Sep 21, 2006 05:56 pm »

  Ive never written a Fan-fic, but the concept of an Avatar starting out as a extremely peaceable, studying the Yin Hand as a method of healing, and experiencing a tradgedy pushing him/her over the edge would be pretty scary.  A master of the 4 Yin Techniques of Bending would be the ultimate assassin and an utterly terrifying opponent.  Its likely that the other avatar spirits would suppress even the knowledge of the existance of such a past life from Aang.  Perhaps somewhere there is a missing or defaced avatar statue......
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The dispensation of Nature is such that the very act of Living and Doing is to its very core, awash with Evil.
 If you cannot accept this fact, the world is impossible to live in, as it is for Poets
Isidorios
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« Reply #8 on: Sep 21, 2006 06:02 pm »

LOL my grammar was pretty horrible on that last post, my apologies
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 If you cannot accept this fact, the world is impossible to live in, as it is for Poets
Jord
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« Reply #9 on: Sep 21, 2006 06:25 pm »

Woah...sorry for the off topicness, but what does the Yin Hand and the Air Yin hand do??
And how would it make the benders stronger?
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Isidorios
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« Reply #10 on: Sep 21, 2006 06:28 pm »

At its most basic, Yang Hand Bending techniques would involve attacking your opponent with external destructive forces, whereas Yin Hand techniques would attack your foe internally by disrupting the elemental components of their very body.  At the Avatar State level, Yin could be used to Petrify, Internally Combust and create other gruesome effects.  Shocked
« Last Edit: Sep 21, 2006 06:30 pm by Isidorios » Logged


The dispensation of Nature is such that the very act of Living and Doing is to its very core, awash with Evil.
 If you cannot accept this fact, the world is impossible to live in, as it is for Poets
Jord
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« Reply #11 on: Sep 21, 2006 06:34 pm »

At its most basic, Yang Hand Bending techniques would involve attacking your opponent with external destructive forces, whereas Yin Hand techniques would attack your foe internally by disrupting the elemental components of their very body.  At the Avatar State level, Yin could be used to Petrify, Internally Combust and create other gruesome effects.  Shocked
Erm...sorry...I can't understand what your saying, your words are too big, lol. Wink

Can you just re-phrase that?? Thanks!
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TimKai
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« Reply #12 on: Sep 21, 2006 06:36 pm »

  Actually I dont think the mineral content of Neurons are any more the "source" than the filament in a lightbulb.

An action potential, which is the underlying concept behind the transmission of nerve impulses, is caused by the interaction of Sodium and Potassium.  Sodium being a metal (::shrug:: that's what it is) and potassium . . . well, same family, so also a metal (a guess).  It's already been determined that refined earth (ie Metal) isn't bendable by an earth bender.  I don't know why, but there it is.

  Ive never written a Fan-fic, but the concept of an Avatar starting out as a extremely peaceable, studying the Yin Hand as a method of healing, and experiencing a tradgedy pushing him/her over the edge would be pretty scary.  A master of the 4 Yin Techniques of Bending would be the ultimate assassin and an utterly terrifying opponent.  Its likely that the other avatar spirits would suppress even the knowledge of the existance of such a past life from Aang.  Perhaps somewhere there is a missing or defaced avatar statue......

This is absolutely brilliant material.  Quite frankly, I have seen signs that Aang might snap (although he seemed to resolve those issues with the baby and all . . .) in the decapitation of that . . . bee . . . thing.  Whatever it was, from "the Desert".

Eh, I gush too easily.  But I stand by those statements.

Quote
At its most basic, Yang Hand Bending techniques would involve attacking your opponent with external destructive forces, whereas Yin Hand techniques would attack your foe internally by disrupting the elemental components of their very body.  At the Avatar State level, Yin could be used to Petrify, Internally Combust and create other gruesome effects.

Instead of JUST petrifying, it would be very interesting to freeze only the joints of a body.  Thus immobilized, no bending could take place, and the person would be totally unable to resist whatever torture the bender in question had in mind . . . 0_0  that terrifies me.
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Kari
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« Reply #13 on: Sep 21, 2006 06:38 pm »

lol Smiley You don't need to apologize for Your grammar when You're talking to someone German. Or shall I apologize every time? I do so on another forum and all people there tell me constantly not to do so Cheesy.
Anyhow, to the topic: I don't think there ever was such an avatar. Think of it, if such an avatar would have existed, and would have used the Yin part except for healing, he probably would have destroyed the whole world. An avatar being that powerful would have controlled the whole world and things wouldn't have been as they were when Aang was born/woke up. Furthermore I guess if such an avatar would have ever existed all the other people wouldn't hold the avatars in such high regard anymore. They would be just frightened by them.

Love,
Kari

ETA: Sorry for the grammar Cheesy.
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Isidorios
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« Reply #14 on: Sep 21, 2006 06:39 pm »

  My theory is that when ores are refined and or alloyed they lose a vital connection to the spiritual world, becoming strongly attuned to their creators and hence cannot be bent.
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The dispensation of Nature is such that the very act of Living and Doing is to its very core, awash with Evil.
 If you cannot accept this fact, the world is impossible to live in, as it is for Poets
Isidorios
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« Reply #15 on: Sep 21, 2006 06:41 pm »

  True Kari, but the Avatars have been around for Centuries, and its likely the existence of a Dark Avatar could have been gradually removed from historical records (The Ancient Chinese and Egyptians were good at it).  Certainly future avatars would have worked to erase such a blight upon their honor.
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The dispensation of Nature is such that the very act of Living and Doing is to its very core, awash with Evil.
 If you cannot accept this fact, the world is impossible to live in, as it is for Poets
Kari
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« Reply #16 on: Sep 21, 2006 06:45 pm »

To Jord: Okay, to make it simple: If You hit Your friend with Your fist, that's Yang. If You could cause somehow that his heart would stop beating it would be Yin. Yang is something You do with Your body (You use the fist for hitting), Yin is something You do with Your spirit (You don't stop his heart by grabbing it with Your hand, You understand?)

Or said different: If You have a cup and move it by taking it with Your hand and putting it somewhere else it would be Yang. If You concentrate on the cup and move it without touching it but just by thinking You want to move it, it would be Yin.

I hope I could help Smiley.

Love,
Kari
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Jord
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« Reply #17 on: Sep 21, 2006 06:53 pm »

To Jord: Okay, to make it simple: If You hit Your friend with Your fist, that's Yang. If You could cause somehow that his heart would stop beating it would be Yin. Yang is something You do with Your body (You use the fist for hitting), Yin is something You do with Your spirit (You don't stop his heart by grabbing it with Your hand, You understand?)

Or said different: If You have a cup and move it by taking it with Your hand and putting it somewhere else it would be Yang. If You concentrate on the cup and move it without touching it but just by thinking You want to move it, it would be Yin.

I hope I could help Smiley.

Love,
Kari


Off-T: Ok! Much appreciated!

On-T: Yes, if any Avatar were able to use any of the Yin or Yang powers then I believe he could have whiped out the planet, and all of the living things on it, of course, he could only do this along with bending all the elements Wink
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Isidorios
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« Reply #18 on: Sep 21, 2006 07:06 pm »

  Im in no way implying that Yin Hand Bending would be in any way more powerful than Yang Hand.  Certainly it would require personal contact with someone to affect their body, and people with signifigant personal spirit would be able to resist the effects.  By its very definition Yin Hand would be exactly as powerful and Yang hand just more subtle.  As far as "destroying" the world, enough Masters of Air could more or less do that through weather manipulation if they had such intentions.
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The dispensation of Nature is such that the very act of Living and Doing is to its very core, awash with Evil.
 If you cannot accept this fact, the world is impossible to live in, as it is for Poets
Kari
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« Reply #19 on: Sep 21, 2006 07:11 pm »

Hm... I myself DO think Yin is more powerful than Yang. But that's just my personal opinion. Perhaps because: A normal citizen can still defend when attacked in the Yang way. But he can't defend when attacked in the Ying way. I'm not even sure if someone with "signifigant personal spirit" could resists the effects. Depends perhaps... A water bender could for sure resist water Yin, but could a fire bender do? He has no influence on water so I'm not sure if he could defend when attacked with water Yin.

Love,
Kari
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Isidorios
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« Reply #20 on: Sep 21, 2006 07:20 pm »

  If you can embrace Yin/Yang philosophy then you might as well accept the existence of Chi, and while benders might be using their Chi to manipulate basic elemental spirit energy, people like Sokka, Jet and Ty Lee would exert considerable force over their own "Oneness" and resist anyone bending their own spirit energy. Ty Lee's talk of Auras kind of supports this i think, and her attraction to Sokka might be related to him having a powerful aura.  And while Yin seems powerful, never underestimate the effect of dropping a cliff on someones head.
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The dispensation of Nature is such that the very act of Living and Doing is to its very core, awash with Evil.
 If you cannot accept this fact, the world is impossible to live in, as it is for Poets
Darmani
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« Reply #21 on: Sep 21, 2006 07:21 pm »

Why bother with fancy medical techniques for Earthbending when thick clouds can suffocate and blind even machines (just try to drive in a duststorm) or you can just suck the dude into the ground from - judging from Fong - about ten yards away.  Plus the whole short range howitzer everyone can do.  Heck make a sword of stone and whirl that thing like its a feather for you a 200 lbs of sharp death for anyone else.  Though a tetsubo would be more stylish, I supposed.  Maybe untempered iron to even thing out?  Of course this is only after you'd try my favorite technique, swimming through the earth to undermine all fixed structures' foundations.
Also get ready to bling yourself until you're blinding because I have two words for you.  Diamond Bullets.

Quote
Hm... I myself DO think Yin is more powerful than Yang. But that's just my personal opinion

Forgive the needless ranting.  I have issues.  Hell I don't even honor this stuff, someone who does take it away.

But NEVER say that.  There is no weak/strong divide.  Its a matter of applications of force and energy NOT little energy and high energy.  The principal of Yin/Yang used and usuable in everything from cooking to writing is described as "two sides of the mountain one shaded and the other lit by the sun"
Or whatever someone described.  Or as the show once put it, push and pull.  There are other dualistic divides but one I came across that is frowned upon, at least by some is the "good and evil"
Both sides must come to complete something.  Evil is bad and from a lack of balance and destroys and undermines.  You don't need or want that cohabitating with your good that's messed up and causes conflict.  We want harmony, even if its less interesting...

I don't like even *using* such loaded easternish words unless in very defined context and I am knowledgeable because thoughts like yin=weak,etc.  They creep in easy.  Heck everything I just wrote above is WRONG.  But I just really freak when someone starts about that using a realworld term.  Same as if started going off about The Holy Spirit or heat or George Washington.
« Last Edit: Sep 21, 2006 07:30 pm by Darmani » Logged

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Isidorios
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« Reply #22 on: Sep 21, 2006 07:46 pm »

  Per the whole dustcloud, howitzer, sucking into the ground thing, most of these techniques have obvious counters well known by the other benders (does anyone important EVER get hit by projected rocks??).  Freezing someones blood is something they would have a considerably harder time dealing with unless they were a good waterbender or had the personal energy to minimize the effects.  This is all just whimsy and conjecture on my part anyway, and not a serious part of the Avatar mythology.
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The dispensation of Nature is such that the very act of Living and Doing is to its very core, awash with Evil.
 If you cannot accept this fact, the world is impossible to live in, as it is for Poets
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