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Question: Rate this episode
10 - 347 (41.1%)
9 - 199 (23.6%)
8 - 173 (20.5%)
7 - 81 (9.6%)
6 - 23 (2.7%)
5 - 12 (1.4%)
4 - 3 (0.4%)
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Author Topic: [313] The Firebending Masters  (Read 134922 times)
LoveAvatar
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« Reply #325 on: Jan 06, 2008 11:04 pm »

Now that Aang knows firebending, i would like to see one ultimate practicing session: Zuko, Toph and Katara vs. Aang
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« Reply #326 on: Jan 06, 2008 11:09 pm »

I remember from one of the episodes in book 2 zuko was trying to learn to bend lightening but couldn't because of self conflict and what his drive for bending was (chi/ energy and etc, i think).  But now that his self conflict is gone (hopefully all gone?), I think we will see him finally be able to bend lightening!
As for the episode, eh it was okay, I gave an 8/10, I think everyone could've acted a little older and not so childish.
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applefleas
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« Reply #327 on: Jan 07, 2008 12:25 am »

Well.. the thing is... they are still kids. So while I agree that perhaps they shouldve shown more growth, I dont think them acting their age shows immaturity. Katara acting really spiteful towards Zuko, while understandable, is immature.

All in all... I think this episode is VERY solid. I give regularly solid episodes 7s... but this was VERY solid and deserves a 9 from me. Very happy with this episode. It wasnt meant to do anything but develop the relationship between Zuko and Aang and how they are connected and it did that efficiently and with passion.
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AvtrSpirit
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« Reply #328 on: Jan 07, 2008 12:31 am »

I don't know why people (including my little brother) take so much issue over Katara's hostility. Let's not forget that she was the only one (in Crossroads of Destiny) who trusted Zuko... that ended with Aang getting shot by lightning and SHE was the one (only one) crying. Once bitten, twice shy. So her anger comes not only from the fact that he hunted them but that he (personally) betrayed her. She feels manipulated emotionally and that is hard to forgive.

Sokka, on the other hand, has always been taught that fire is evil; not necessarily as a propoganda but just something he has to fight. That's why he does not look kindly upon Aang training in firebending ("It's a stupid element" he says in Nightmares and Daydreams). But he knows what needs to be done for ending the war... so he deals with it using sarcasm. That's why he calls both teacher and pupil of firebending: "jerks". Also, he could not let pass the opportunity to poke fun (literally) at Zuko, their as-yet archnemesis. But we can give Sokka a little leeway in sarcasm, can't we?

Unlike Katara and Sokka, who had to face the realities of war since birth, Aang has seen the Fire Nation before the war. Also, he saw Roku's past first-hand. (Not to mention, as an airbender, he is naturally optimistic.) That is why he is open to Zuko's "transformation" and believes that there is good in him.
For Toph, there is not much to be said, due to her absence in Season 1. But she met and talked with Uncle Iroh so she can believe that there is good in Zuko. Her family was never (as I believe) personally affected by the war. So, she too can appreciate Zuko's goodness.

My point is, the other characters haven't seen Zuko's struggles personally. Therefore, they approach him with their own experiences. I feel that all the characters' receptions of Zuko were very accurately modeled in both the previous episodes given their nature and past. Katara and Sokka's actions were not inappropriate.

On another note, it's interesting to note how the animators gave the Fire Nation and it's fire a red tinge as if their bending had been tainted by all the blood they'd spilt. But the Sun Warriors and their city and fire is mostly golden yellow as if to symbolize it's nobility and purity.  For so long, Jeong Jeong had me convinced that Fire was a "cursed" element. But this episode definitely remove any such conviction. It is energy and life itself. The warmth inside any living being.
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« Reply #329 on: Jan 07, 2008 01:04 am »

^nicely put. Like you said Katara and Sokka have dealt with the war first hand. And there's  some racism between the Water Tribes and the Fire Nation. They've always naturally hated Fire Nation people. If you seriously exspected the to run  over and hug Zuko and accept him with open arms, you either need your head checked cuz you are out of your mind. You guys need to lighten up on them, Katara especially. They'll eventually come around to Zuko, it's inevitable. The creators are very smart for doing what they're doing with them and are planning for things to come later. In case you haven't noticed Katara has been going through a transformation this season, and it's going to come full circle and lead to her accepting Zuko. Also having Katara act that way adds realism and depth to the characters and story, and you're a fool if you don't think that Katara will be like this for the rest of the series.
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« Reply #330 on: Jan 07, 2008 01:09 am »

Sorry for the double post but I can't edit my post while on my phone, and the last sentence came out wrong, I meant you're a fool if you think she will be like that for the rest of the series. I started to write it one way and then changed wording, forgetting that I had the don't in there.
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« Reply #331 on: Jan 07, 2008 03:20 am »

Think about what the creators have covered in just 23 mins.......
How much Aang is nervous of Firebending
How much deep the character of Zuko is
How much Sokka has a grudge of Firebending
How Toph learned Earthbending and why shes so good at it
How rational and mature Toph's thinking is
The Origin, meaning, good side, almost a complete background of Firebending
Iroh's little history
Zuko and Aang's interaction
DRAGONS..!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How has the FN changed the source of firebending
Aang started firebending
Zuko still being short tempered
Why Dragons got Extinct
The Sun Warriors existence
Katara still being cruel and making fun of Zuko and Firebending
Aang and Zuko learning a new way of Firebending
Aang losing his staff
Origin of Airbending
............................................
Thats all I can think of right now

And to top it all GREAT ANIMATION AND MUSIC..........
 
I cant believe that they covered so much in just 23 mins

And guys nothing is perfect..........
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« Reply #332 on: Jan 07, 2008 08:02 am »

7/10

Positive Side:
1. Dragons
2. Goku and Vegeta, err... Aang and Zuko

Negative Side:
1. No Iroh
2. B****y Katara
3. Wimpy Aang

Overall a pretty good episode even if many elements are not original especially the Dragon Dance. The Dragon Dance was eerily similar to Dragon Ball Z's Fusion Pose Dance especially the second time when Aang and Zuko performed it for the "Masters" and then touched fists.

Then of course the removal of the golden egg was similar to the removal of the golden idol from Raiders of the Lost Ark.

With only 8 episodes left I'm kind of disappointed at how this final season has turned out thus far.
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greenstarrz
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« Reply #333 on: Jan 07, 2008 08:06 am »

Holy... this was SO good!!!  Shocked
That Mayan-like civilization belonged to Firebenders! Double-gasp!!! Not just normal fire nation but the Sun Warriors! The part when the dragons rose from their caves was remarkable... I shivered like hell!
I kinda clicked 10/10 out of such astonishment from this episode but honestly, a shiny nine would've been more appropriate.
I feel that Katara has been very b****y lately and she didn't even apologize for all her insults!  Angry Sokka, although quite funny with his jokes, contributed to the hostility as well. Especially making fun of the ancient practice. Some respect, Water Tribe!  Roll Eyes
Still find it not credible Aang learned firebending too easily, but I guess it wrapped up to the whole drama of Zuko regaining his flames.  Grin
Toph was probably the nicest to the newcomer which is unlikely since she has been a tomboy Tongue
Anyone feel that the Sun tribe shed off a native Tiki-ish vibe??? No Asian influence at all! Fresh new ideas for the show  Smiley
The dragons STILL make me squeal for such enthusiasm!!! And can't they just masturbate to re-establish their population...? Huh 
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greenstarrz
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« Reply #334 on: Jan 07, 2008 08:16 am »

I thought this episode was 'so-so'. It wasn't bad but not great either. I gave it a 5/10. I liked that we got to see Zuko and Aang bonding but that they didn't magically become 'Best Friend Forever'. And it was cool to learn more about Firebending, dragons and such.

However, I thought a lot of characters were acting in an annoying way. Zuko was being too dorky. I hated the close-up looks at his embarrassed face. Aang was being annoyingly nervous and panic-y. His constant 'Whaa, Whoo' seriously got on my nerves. He sounded like a whiney kid. It was cute in Season 1 but I expect him to act a little more mature now.  Sokka and Katara's sarcasm just came off as mean-spirited in my opinion. We all know Katara hates Zuko's guts but hotdamn woman, do you really need to make it so obvious every chance you get? It's not endearing you to me at all.
I pity Haru, The Duke and Teo. They didn't get any lines this episode and really have been reduced to 'tag-along' status.

There was too little action in this episode to really keep me hooked. It took ages for them to finally SEE 'The Masters' and by that time, I was really hoping to see some cool kickass fight scenes. Nothing.

Also, I though Aang mastered Firebending WAY too easily. At least in 'Bitter Work', we saw Aang practice, fail and eventually succeed in mastering Earthbending. This time, all he did, was hold a flame in his hand (something he already learned from Jeong Jeong) and see some pretty rainbow-coloured flames. I mean, come on!

Anyways, looking forward to the next episode.

There is an explanation to why fire was controlled too fast and that is because fire isn't air's opposite element. I know it's way quick but at least a logical reason behind it is around.
No fighting scenes? Well, the GAang can't keep bending forever! Besides, wasn't the epic scene with the dragons enough? It would've been to obvious for a match so this time more culture is emphasized. Less irrelevant bending and something with more depth. Dragons encircling you can be as cool as lightning bursts or the like.
I was in awe all the time, the same feeling I have during the battles. Would wholeheartedly agree about Katara being a hoe and Sokka disrespectful. Heck, Toph acted even more polite than Katara of whom we've known as "motherly". 
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Jackmunch
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« Reply #335 on: Jan 07, 2008 09:38 am »

I like the episode.
Not just because it's the episode where Aang finally bends fire, but it continues to show a brighter side to Zuko. Yet, something tells me that Azula may already know about the dragon and sun warrior's existence and is planning on destroying the tribe during the week of the comet's arrival. 
« Last Edit: Jan 07, 2008 09:43 am by Jackmunch » Logged
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« Reply #336 on: Jan 07, 2008 09:40 am »

Really, really great episode...one of my favourites^^
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« Reply #337 on: Jan 07, 2008 10:11 am »

After this episode, Katara is just asking for it now. Laughing at Zuko's loss of firebending and his "dance" was downright mean and rude. If she had had a good reason for her actions (ie: splashing Zuko with water in WAT) I would have been more forgiving. Did anyone make fun of her dance in "The Headband?" I know they're slightly different situations, but if Katara lost her water bending, I don't think anyone would have been making fun of her for it. And the "Or maybe you're just not as good as you thought you were?" Maybe she should take a look in the mirror, 'cause she's not a perfect waterbender either.

To get off the Katara subject, I found Sokka a little annoying in this too. Not as much as Katara, but the "jerk-bending" comment was lame. The only part I found funny about Sokka when he was poking Zuko with his sword. That made me ROFL Grin

And Toph: she was unbelievably adorable as a little girl! I loved hearing how she learned to earthbend, and I like how they showed a close-up of her eyes right before the flashback. Without Toph, gosh....the gaang would be goners.

And lastly: the extras. Ugh. I'm very happy they got no lines in this ep, as I wouldn't have put a 10/10 if they did. They are completely useless to the gaang, and have always been.

Also, I absolutely LOVED all of Zuzu's lines in this ep. He was perfectly in character (angry Zuko came back for a little while!) and the pieces of Iroh's past we learned about=pure awesomeness! However, Zuko needs to start calling things by their real names. Right before the ride on Appa, he said he needed help with his firebending or "The Avatar needs to find a new teacher." Come on, Zuzu, call him Aang! And on the ride on Appa: something like "I don't know why but I thought it would be a little faster."

I'm guessing he's like that only because it's FN tradition. Like in "Zuko Alone," Azula pointed out that they can only call their grandfather "Firelord."

One last note: does anyone else think that what Zuko has learned from the dragons will finally give him an edge over Azula?
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« Reply #338 on: Jan 07, 2008 10:18 am »

For me I liked the episode, however there were just a few things that I didn't like at all.

First the two dragons still being alive caught me by surprise. I will give them that much credit that they actually did a good job there. I wasn't entirely expecting dragons at all but you know it was really good and very surprising.

Now as far as everything else, I am pretty impressed. Katara did make it rather clear that she didn't trust Zuko at all...If that were the case why the hell would she let him go with Aang? Alone nonetheless. But anyways, I guess that's besides the point, and something you're not supposed to think about Tongue

Well, back to the whole Zuko thing. I am so glad he actually did join their team. But all the same, I'm so mad at Katara and Sokka for the way they're treating him. Aang seems to have no problem with Zuko and him joining the team. And yet ever chance they get Katara and Sokka continue to smart off to him. If I had been Zuko I would have fried them to a crisp by this point. I mean I know they don't trust him, but how do they expect to trust him with comments like that to him? That's just not nice.

I feel so bad for Z.

All the same the episode was good Smiley
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diego99
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« Reply #339 on: Jan 07, 2008 10:23 am »

I must admit, dragons being the first firebenders is a lot more exciting than the sun. Though the sun still plays an important role in firebending! Cheesy

isn't the dragon is the the first firebenders and the sun is the main source of the firebending
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kyoshiSokka
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« Reply #340 on: Jan 07, 2008 11:07 am »

He.. I guess they mada Sokka and Katara "jerky" so we can like Zuko more
and see that water tribers can also get (very) annoying.
They need some time to get used on Zuko's presents.
Other alternativ (relation Zuko + others) was to completely IGNORE him.

(This reminds me of a "friend" that finaly wanted to join our team
after being big jerk to all of us. Afterwords we made fun of him!
But he did't have any choice but ti shut up!  Cheesy)

I miss Huru. I hope he will have his lines and some earth bending in a colse future.
Strange that he didn't get closer to Toph - he can learn a LOT from her. (any Shippers?)

One thing more!
Where will they go now?!
We know that Appa can't take them ALL (now + Zuko) very far.



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Roshi
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« Reply #341 on: Jan 07, 2008 11:40 am »

I must admit, dragons being the first firebenders is a lot more exciting than the sun. Though the sun still plays an important role in firebending! Cheesy

isn't the dragon is the the first firebenders and the sun is the main source of the firebending
This is my interpretation aswell.

One thing more!
Where will they go now?!
We know that Appa can't take them ALL (now + Zuko) very far.
I think that Haru, The Duke and Teo are going to go on a trip together in Zuko's Air Balloon. Either that, or half the team will travel by balloon while the other half travel on Appa... Though Appa is much faster than a balloon, so it would be difficult for them to keep up.


Other thoughts:

Sokka was not being mean at all, I mean "jerks" and "jerkbending"? He might aswell just called them "stupidheads", it would be just as insulting. Sokka's insults weren't mean spirited at all, where as Katara's clearly were. I mean when Toph says "ouch" to a comment, it has to be more than just a regular burn.

I think that the Sun Warriors will make an appearance during the finale of the series, so that there will be warriors from every element fighting to take down the Fire Lord. (Master Pakku & waterbenders, Bumi & Earthbenders, Sun Warriors (& Dragons?), Iroh & the White Lotus Society, Zuko and any FN warriors he can sway to his side (which may be none), Aang & the Gaang, and any FN prisoners that they set free (SUKI!!!!).
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Mimete
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« Reply #342 on: Jan 07, 2008 11:54 am »

I really liked this episode and how they gave more depth to the art of Fire Bending. In the past they've always made it look cruel as if all it does is cause missery, but this episode showed it to be something beautiful and a part of nature.
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« Reply #343 on: Jan 07, 2008 12:07 pm »

I think Sokka's sarcastic remarks were his way of showing endearment and starting to accept Zuko. Sokka's track record when he considers someone a friend of allie, he will say sarcastic things. When he doesn't trust you, he is all serious.
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« Reply #344 on: Jan 07, 2008 12:17 pm »

Quote
I mean when Toph says "ouch" to a comment, it has to be more than just a regular burn.
She doesn't exactly say it with a sad face if you noticed.
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« Reply #345 on: Jan 07, 2008 12:25 pm »

I find that Katara attitude to Zuko kept inline with the story. Look at it, girl threatened to kill him in the previous episode, so do you really expect her to be all lovie-dovie now towards him. She'll be happaier to see Appa accidentally step on Zuko than any think else.

I bet the only reason why some people here find Katara's attitude harsh, because they are all Zutara fans and hate the fact that it will not happen if she keeps up the mean streak. Wake up and smell the coffee, Zutara will never happen.
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« Reply #346 on: Jan 07, 2008 12:30 pm »

Quote
I mean when Toph says "ouch" to a comment, it has to be more than just a regular burn.
She doesn't exactly say it with a sad face if you noticed.
I noticed.

What I was saying was that Toph has a Ph.D. in name calling from the Earth Rumble School of Dissing. She hardly ever reacts to name calling because that's just part of the game, but she thought that Katara's comment was worthy of an "ouch", which means that it was particularly "good", perhaps too good.

I find that Katara attitude to Zuko kept inline with the story. Look at it, girl threatened to kill him in the previous episode, so do you really expect her to be all lovie-dovie now towards him. She'll be happaier to see Appa accidentally step on Zuko than any think else.

I bet the only reason why some people here find Katara's attitude harsh, because they are all Zutara fans and hate the fact that it will not happen if she keeps up the mean streak. Wake up and smell the coffee, Zutara will never happen.
Nope, personally I think that the meaner Katara gets, the more I think that Zutara is going to happen. If Katara gets "mean" or "dark" enough, then there is a greater chance she'll recognize something in herself that is close to what she has experienced from Zuko in the past. The more she empathizes with Zuko, the greater chance that there'll be romance or at least a good friendship later in the series.
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infernovia
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« Reply #347 on: Jan 07, 2008 01:22 pm »

Quote
I mean when Toph says "ouch" to a comment, it has to be more than just a regular burn.
She doesn't exactly say it with a sad face if you noticed.
I noticed.

What I was saying was that Toph has a Ph.D. in name calling from the Earth Rumble School of Dissing. She hardly ever reacts to name calling because that's just part of the game, but she thought that Katara's comment was worthy of an "ouch", which means that it was particularly "good", perhaps too good.
It was a burn, but I am against isolating Katara here. Its not like the other's were angels. I mean everybody laughs with Katara, and Toph is smiling at that point, so no, Katara isn't the only one being merciless. She will be, but not just yet.

I find that Katara attitude to Zuko kept inline with the story. Look at it, girl threatened to kill him in the previous episode, so do you really expect her to be all lovie-dovie now towards him. She'll be happaier to see Appa accidentally step on Zuko than any think else.

I bet the only reason why some people here find Katara's attitude harsh, because they are all Zutara fans and hate the fact that it will not happen if she keeps up the mean streak. Wake up and smell the coffee, Zutara will never happen.
Nope, personally I think that the meaner Katara gets, the more I think that Zutara is going to happen. If Katara gets "mean" or "dark" enough, then there is a greater chance she'll recognize something in herself that is close to what she has experienced from Zuko in the past. The more she empathizes with Zuko, the greater chance that there'll be romance or at least a good friendship later in the series.
The more I see this interaction, the more I see Zuko needing someone who is more mature and careful with her words. Zuko is already pissed off and opinionated as it is, he doesn't need someone else helping him. To do his duty as a prince and to understand the position as queen, I just can't see this Katara who is very openly antagonistic to be the one who will fulfill that duty. Mai, with her careful chess like positioning and the ability to roll with the blows not only matches his personality and arouses serious passion in him, she also fulfills the political part of his life. And sure they have their problems, but at least they work it out together...

Friendship, good possibility, but romance? Nah.
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« Reply #348 on: Jan 07, 2008 01:27 pm »

Nice episode!!

Missing Momo since last two episodes ...absent ?
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« Reply #349 on: Jan 07, 2008 01:31 pm »

Nice episode!!

Missing Momo since last two episodes ...absent ?

He's probably exploring the Western Air Temple. It must look HUGE to him.
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